I have three, count 'em, three, very cool cousins who have radically changed their religions in the past few years. Two became Catholics and one is now an Evangelical. If you're reading this, don't worry, I'm not talking about you. The three I speak of don't read my blog. One is on facebook, but he unfriended me, I'm assuming because he didn't like my confrontational replies to the BS he was posting.
This really distresses me. Not so much the fact that they changed their religions. People are free to do what they want. What bugs me is that these were three of my favorite relatives. All of them used to babysit my brother and I when we were kids, and they were the cool, pizza-ordering, cartoon-watching grown-ups we really looked up to and admired. As adults, I also really liked all of them. They were just so cool and down to Earth and fun to talk to. One of them used to call me when I was in the hospital with one of my Crohn's flare-ups and give me pep talks because he deals with a similar disease.
But now, it's as if they all made a radical 180 in their personalities. With the exception of one, the other two have become totally different people. They now seem to put the church and their new radically conservative ideologies above their friends and family. One of those two didn't come to our annual family reunion this year. I can only guess, since we don't really talk anymore, but I'm assuming it's because he didn't want to hang out with the rest of us heathens.
The other two were at the reunion, where I missed out on an apparently epic conversation on religion. Another cousin, we'll call her "Jennie," filled me in on the conversation that took place after I had taken my kids home. The discussion had turned to gay marriage. To make sense of the conversation, you need to know that one of these guy's daughters is a lesbian. When asked by Jennie if he would walk her down the aisle if she got married, he answered, "no." When she asked the other guy, who is this girl's uncle, if he would come to her wedding if she decided to get married, he also answered, "no."
Their reasoning was that a gay marriage was not a "real" marriage because it was not sanctioned by the church, therefore it didn't deserve their respect or time. Jennie pointed out to them that my marriage was also not sanctioned by the church, but my dad walked me down the aisle and they both came to my wedding (although, to be fair, that was in their pre-bible-banging days). They explained to her that my marriage was also not "real," and by extension, I guess my brother's marriage and my parent's marriage are also not "real" because none of them were sanctioned by a church. Although I might point out that all of those marriages are still going strong despite the absence of god, while many "real" marriages I know of have fallen apart.
What worries me the most about this phenomenon is, could it happen to me? Could I hit 40 and all of a sudden decide to find Jesus? That would be truly tragic, since I like my life the way it is now. And I simply can't understand how finding Jesus causes you to lose your family if they don't agree with your new doctrine on life.
It seems like an epic waste of faith.
You were not the reason why the other one didn't show up, nor did he recently just find his religon. He has had it all along.
ReplyDeleteAs for social issues, I kind of fit in between the two of you and see both sides and support some of both of what you say. I do not believe in black and white on most issues.
As for finding Jesus at age 40 you must look for it. If you do not want it nor look for it, you won't have to worry about finding it.
Darin
You are correct that I do not read your blog (normally), but when I was told of the inacuracies being told about me I felt I should at least let you know the truth so that you would have the choice to either continue spreading the lie or do the right thing.
ReplyDeleteFor starters, I don't know what you consider "a few years", but I became a christian back in ninth grade (back in 1983). Now in your defense, I didn't really understand it or take it seriously until the early to mid 1990's.
As for unfriending you on facebook it had very little to do with your comments and posts. What it was about is that I do not allow "potty mouth" language on my facebook (my kids often read over my sholder). When I find people that resort to "potty mouth" language, and are on my friends list, I unfriend them. Now in this case the people in question were not on my friend list, they were on yours, and since it is none of my business whom you are friends with, and your friends have just as much right to say what they want as I have to say what I want the best answer seemed to be to unfriend them (the only way I could) by unfriending you. In this manor, you still had your friends, and they couold continue to say whatever they wanted and the only person missing out on it would be me.
You are also not the reason we skipped the family reunion this year. The family reunion falls on Alyssa's birthday every year (either our side or my wife's side of the family, and every year she can not have a "friend" birthday party because of a reunion, so this year, we chose to let her have her "friend" birthday party instead of the reunions. I love the family reunions, and I don't consider my relatives "heathers", we are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God. If you read your bible you would notice that Jesus (the example we are suppose to live by) did not hang out with the religous leaders, he hung with the normal people, those who understood they were sinners.
What saddens me is that you feel you have to give up part of your family because some of them have chosen to follow Jesus. What happened to all that "accepting people the way that they are" that you so openly expressed for your gay cousin, where is that acceptance for your Christian cousins.
As for this happening to you I agree with Darin, It most likely will not happen to you since you are not looking for it.
Wow. I posted a very long and thoughtful response here earlier, but now it seems to have disappeared, so I'll try again.
ReplyDeleteI didn't mean to start a family war here. I really and genuinely like both of you, but since I'm backed into a corner, I'll try to defend myself a little bit.
1. I purposely didn't name anyone in this post. You outed yourself. That being said, it was unfair to you to link this to my personal facebook page where so many of my family members are bound to read it. That was wrong, but I'm so used to doing it that I wasn't thinking. I'm sorry.
2. What is one supposed to think when they get unfriended? I assume that the person who unfriended me doesn't care to correspond with me anymore probably due to things I've said, especially when no explanation is given. Now that you've explained, I understand. I will not censor myself or my friends on facebook, which is why I never friend any children or let my own children read anything I write.
3. This is not a family blog. It is a blatantly liberal blog that is meant to share my own personal, liberal feelings with those who choose to read them. I'm only writing things as I see them, not necessarily as they are or as they should be. It's my own tiny point of view in a big world. And I defend my position that I feel some of my family members (not just you) seem to be putting their faith ahead of their family these days. I'm probably wrong, but that's my experience, and I can only write from my experience. I can't apologize for how I feel. It is what it is. Faith sometimes necessitates choosing it over your family, unless I have a completely backwards understanding of what obedience to god means, and I'm sure you think I do.
4. My brother also fills me in on some of the things you're writing, and frankly, they scare me sometimes. All theology scares me. Christianity can do just as much damage as Islam or any other belief system. Just look at the crusades. I'd like to be able to share in the discussions in a more thoughtful and civil way, but I don't have that opportunity anymore.
5. I don't think I'm intolerant of Christians, but I am very much intolerant of religions that preach disdain for those who don't fit their social mold. It gives people an excuse to hate others and I think that's wrong. Also, as someone who's written at length about the dangers of living in "PC" society, I would hope that you wouldn't begrudge others the opportunity to say things that might be hurtful to Christians, just as you say things that might be hurtful to atheists. As for tolerance of gay cousins over Christian ones, being gay is something you're born with. Religion is something you choose, so I feel more empathy for people living in a world that hates them for how they're born. Christians are certainly not punished in this 75% Christian country, but gay people are.
I'm truly sorry to have offended you so much. It's making my stomach churn just thinking about it. I don't want this to turn into a big rift that divides us all, and I hope you can forgive me for the things I've said here. I would genuinely like to sit down and have a civil discussion about religion with you sometime.
Again, I sincerely apologize.
There is no need to defend yourself, I was not trying to accuse you of anything (I am not perfect so I have no stone to throw), I just wanted to set the record straight as far as it pertained to myself...
ReplyDeleteAnd don't worry about talking about me by name, you have my permission, I am not ashamed of my beliefs and will gladly accept any persecution that may come from them....
As for what you write here, I also have no issues provided if it is about me it is true... Based on the name we can probably all safely assume your viewpoints lean to the liberal side, and from what I know of you (we haven't been real close for a number of years) I would say "lean" is an understatement, but at least you are wiling to stand up openly for what you believe, I commend that (it shows character and integrity)... I would not dream of asking you to censor yourself or your friends...
I agree also that Christianity (as well as any other belief system or organization for that matter) can be abused by people (people are flawed) and result in horrible things happening... If you truly are interested in a civil conversation (on any topic) you are free to e-mail me at any time... I will gladly participate although sometimes it takes me longer than others to respond (I'm not on my computer as much as I used to be)...
Christianity does not teach disdain for anybody, and we are told not to hate anyone, even our enemies, so I think you are either confusing Christianity with flawed people who claim to be Christians or you have bought into the liberal belief that "if you disagree with me you must hate me"...
I am sorry for any stress I may have caused you, that was certainly not my intent... I look forward to receiving e-mails from you in the near future...
I don't have your email address. Could you send it to me at amygwyn@yahoo.com?
ReplyDeleteWow!! I guess I'm not really married!! I married a Catholic, I am Pagan. His church does not recognize my marriage. This is a church he attended his entire life. We couldn't even get the priest to lead everyone in a simple prayer. We were married by a friend who is a judge. My husband hasn't been back to his church... Wait! I guess I *AM* married. The State of Illinois has a paper and everything! We have a marriage license, it's even certified!! Who knew a person could have a marriage the is NOT recognized by the church?? Our does this just apply to gay people?? Sorry if I don't understand... I just don't see the difference. As a non Christian, I have to ask, did Jesus tell you to hate homosexuals, or is that just Old Testament stuff??
ReplyDeleteI might note it is possible to Block individuals on Facebook, so you (Dean) can always refriend Amy and just Block the people who are causing offence.
ReplyDeleteDon't mean to butt in, just thought that'd be a way you could still communicate via FB. :)
Hello Amy, my name is Denise and have been a life long Roman Catholic (both active and lapsed-not practicing) Please don't make any assumptions about someone's choice of religion or their beliefs. Find a non-partisan book discussing the religion and educate yourself about that religion. Also, remember we are all flawed and we are humans and have a difficult time understanding all the mysteries of God, the Creator, the Supreme Being, what ever name you feel comfortable calling Him(we live in a partriarchal society - so God is a He.
ReplyDeleteJesus is not the boogie man, he will not jump out and force you to do anything you don't want to do. But I must say that Jesus can be the very best friend you could ever have. He will never judge you, he will always comfort you,if you want something you only need ask for it, he will never give you what is not good for you. (Giving you what is not good for you is the devil's job). Jesus may give you something better, something you didn't know you wanted something that is perfect. So in short, do your research, it's just educating yourself, when we have knowledge we gain understanding.
I was diagnosed with Crohn's in 1997 and receive infusion every 8 weeks to help maintain my remission. So I very much understand and empathize with you health concerns. BTW I'm not a very good speller. LOL.
Please make arrangements to talk to your cousin in person, then everyone will have a complete picture of what is said and how. Meet in a neutral location and remember that all the issues can not be ironed out in one meeting. Continued connect is very important. We can talk via email if you like-just an invitation, hagerty333@gmail.com
Have a wonderful evening and good luck.
Denise
Interesting discussion. But it isn't just religion. Some people have a way of allowing others their opinions and space, while others are so intolerant of anyone not having their opinions they come across as self righteous and pompous. I tend to avoid those people as they are toxic to joy.
ReplyDeleteGood morning, Amy. After reading your blog entry and the replies you've gotten so far, I just thought I'd put in my 2 cents worth.
ReplyDeleteAs a non-church attending Christian, I find that Jesus would agree with my political stance, which is the same as yours. Since I look to His words rather than accepting someone else's interpretation of them and I haven't attend a church service (other than funerals and weddings) in over 30 years, I've been told by many (my siblings among them) that I'm "not really Christian." This used to distress me, but I've learned to ignore it. Just as no one has the right in this country to tell anyone else, first that they *must* worship, nor what God, god or goddess they should worship, they also have no right to define your religious beliefs (or lack of them). I call myself Christian because I believe in the things He taught and I attempt to follow them. And, in my opinion, the most important things He taught were tolerance (not to judge another's life), love (love for everyone, including one's "enemies") and treating others as we wish to be treated. Call me crazy, but those sound like pretty liberal ideas to me. :-)
I'm curious to where Dean stands on the wedding issue. Not attending one's own daughter's wedding is a HUGE display of disdain. Are those who would not attend misapplying their faith? Or did their faith actually teach them disdain? His entire thesis above hinges on this answer.
ReplyDeleteWhat about secular weddings? Are they less real than christian weddings? Where does he stand on Shinto, Buddhist, or Hindu weddings. All 4 I just listed have no involvement of Yahweh. I'll leave out the Jewish and Muslim question, since they and Christians all worship the same deity.
I'm intolerant of all religions. DOWN WITH THEM.
ReplyDeleteLet's not gang up on Dean here. He had nothing to do with the marriage discussion.
ReplyDeleteChris, it's interesting that you mention your beliefs about following Jesus' teachings, because I've actually been thinking a lot lately about how much more respect I would have for Christians if they were simply choosing to live their lives in a way that emulates Jesus' better teachings (he did have some misguided ones too, in my opinion). To me, that's the same as my pursuit of emulating a nurse I once worked with who was infinitely kind and patient.
The big problem I have with religion in general, and Christianity specifically, is that instead of taking those teachings and living by them, people insist that the teachings are infallible and there is only one "right" way to live. I wish people were more willing to just listen to good teachings and learn from them, not insist they have the answer to all of life's problems. And I totally agree with you on Jesus being a liberal. He was pretty clear on his stance about caring for the poor.
And Denise, I actually do know quite a bit about Catholicism, as well as many other religions. That's why I dislike them. I am in complete agreement with you that you should educate yourself about things before forming opinions. Which is why I get so irritated when Atheists are asked why they "hate God." The question shows such a stunning lack of basic knowledge about what atheism is (I'm not saying you have said that - just a general thing I seem to hear a lot.)