Friday, March 14, 2014

Bodily Autonomy

Abortion.

It’s a thorny topic. Just saying the word out loud makes most people squirm. And there are passionate people on all sides of the debate that feel equally strongly about their positions.

I was just challenged by a conservative Christian friend of mine to read a post from the “The Matt Walsh Blog” on the “bodily autonomy” argument for abortion. I read it, and now I’m responding. This post will make a lot more sense to you if you first read the original article, which you can find here. Read that first and then come back here.


Are you back? Okay, let’s get started.

First I need to point out that whoever wrote the original letter to Matt was very misguided in their use of language. Calling names and berating people does not strengthen your argument, nor does it help the person you’re having a discussion with see your point of view and take it seriously. So there’s that. I wouldn’t have written the letter in quite the same way.

But anyway, here is my point-by-point rebuttal of the rebuttal to the argument. Again, if you haven’t read the original post, or at least skimmed it, you’re going to be completely lost. So read it and follow along.


1. Matt is correct that the relationship between mother and child is different than the relationship between you and a random stranger. Of course it is. There is nothing quite so meaningful as the bond between a mother and her child. As a mother, I’m astutely aware of this. But I think the fundamental misunderstanding comes from the fact that the bodily autonomy argument isn’t necessarily meant to be an argument about morality; it’s about legality.

What we are saying when we say that a woman should have the sole right to determine what goes on inside their own body is that the government should not have a say in what you do or do not use your body for. Whether you think having an abortion is “moral” or not isn’t really the question. The question is who gets to make that decision for you? You, or the government?

A better analogy would have been this: if your child needs a kidney transplant, should the government compel you to give them your kidney? Again, keep in mind that I’m NOT asking whether or not you would do it (I think we all would if we could). The questions is, “should the government compel you to do it?” And if they should, should it only be for biological children, or adopted children as well? I cannot stress this enough: this is not about morality or what you would do in a specific situation; it’s about what the law would compel you to do, and who gets to make that law, enforce it, and carry out the punishment for it.

And before you ask, yes, I am also in favor of legalized prostitution, drugs, piercing, and pretty much whatever else you want to do with your own body.

2. How a person gets pregnant is irrelevant. Pregnancy, childbirth, and parenting should not be a punishment for having sex. It’s easy to say that everyone who has ever had sex was making a mature decision and they should live with the consequences, but that’s just not the case. Have you met a teenager recently (or ever been one)? How a person gets into the condition they’re in shouldn’t be relevant to the treatment they receive or their ability to control their own body. If I am injured while snowboarding, should I just deal with the broken leg?

3. Again, this goes back to point number 1. It’s not about the morality of the situation or what we think a “good parent” should do. It’s about whether or not they should be forced to do it by the government, or thrown in jail for it.

4. I don’t even know how to comment on the whole “natural order” thing. It assumes that there is a god that created a natural order that we always have to stick by no matter what. If that’s the case, then I guess we also can’t ever use birth control, or shave our legs, or eat Hot Pockets®. It sounds like Matt thinks we shouldn’t ever go against the “natural order,” so does that mean we should eschew dentistry too? I’m just leaving that one alone.

5. The first problem I have with this one is his terminology. The use of the term “abortionist” is specifically meant to make a doctor sound like a criminal, which I guess is his point, but it really bothers me. I’ve met abortion doctors, and they are anything but creepy, trench coat wearing butchers (although, when we make abortion illegal, we will see many more of those types around). They are doctors trying to do what is best for their patients. They are not doing it to make money (or else they would be charging a helluva lot more). I have the same problem with the term “abortion industry.” There is no abortion “industry.”

But I digress. Matt claims that abortion involves an embryo or fetus being “crushed, dismembered, poisoned, or torn apart,” which leads me to believe that he doesn’t actually know how an abortion is done. Depending on the stage of pregnancy, there are different methods, and the later the pregnancy is, the harsher the method becomes. I won’t lie; it does make me uncomfortable. But I keep coming back to the same question: “Is it the government’s job to tell another woman what she can do with her body?”

I don’t know the circumstances of every pregnancy. What I do know is that if you’re seeking a late-term abortion, you probably aren’t there because you just didn’t feel like being pregnant anymore. Often times there is a fetal defect, or a life-threatening condition for the mother. Since I don’t know what’s going on in every case, I shouldn’t be the one making the decision. And neither should my congressman. I know that it’s easy for some people to look at women who are having abortions as “careless,” and “selfish,” but keep in mind that you do not, and cannot possibly know what is going on in every situation. That’s what it comes down to.

6. He’s right. The argument does put me in the precarious position of allowing for a woman to do harmful things while she’s pregnant. I really hate it, but I don’t think it should be illegal for a woman to do reckless things while she’s pregnant. I think she should be encouraged not to do them, and assuming she wants to have a baby, she won’t do them, but at the end of the day, I don’t think she should be thrown in jail for them. Because again, it puts the government in control of what she does with her body.

7. Please refer to point number 5. Here’s where I have a problem. He uses the word “moral” again. This is not a discussion about morality, it is a discussion about legality. You may be surprised to know that I am a lot more bothered by late term abortion than by first-trimester abortion. But my solution to this is not to outlaw ALL abortion. It’s to make first trimester abortion more accessible to women who are seeking it. Unlike a lot of pro-lifers (who equate an embryo with an infant), I DO think there is a difference between a 2-day-old zygote and a 35-week-old fetus. However, since the question of “when life begins” can be a muddy one, depending on what you consider to be “life” and what your specific religion (or lack thereof) tells you, I think the most reasonable course of action in the law is to make life begin at birth. Again, we are talking about legality, not morality.

8. This one gets into the semantics of the word “body.” The bodily autonomy argument only addresses the use of your body and its parts. What Matt is talking about here is really a philosophical argument that I don’t think applies. Pregnancy requires more or less the same thing of every female body it is affecting. Parenthood does not.

For example, I could have chosen to breastfeed my children, but I didn’t. Did I get thrown in jail for it? No, because there are alternate means of feeding a child and the government doesn’t require me to use my body to nourish another person, even if I gave birth to them. It would be easy for someone to make a moral pronouncement about what a “bad mother” I am, if they didn’t know I did it for medical reasons. I was on a medication that was unsafe to take while breastfeeding. Fortunately, the government did not step in and make that decision for me. I made it with the help of my doctor, the way medical decisions should be made. And you know what? Even if I just “didn’t feel like” breastfeeding, I shouldn’t have been thrown in jail for not doing it, because it’s my body.

9. Come on. Just, come on. Really? Doing what you want with your body is not the same as doing what you want anywhere with your body.

10. See point number 8.


The crux of the issue here is that pro-lifers seem to think this is as easy as making a decision about what you would do or what a “good person” should do. But it’s not. It’s a thorny issue precisely because it has to do with pregnancy and motherhood, which are profoundly important things. But being pro-choice does not mean “I think abortions are great and I think everyone should have at least one.” Nor does it mean “every unplanned pregnancy should end in an abortion.” All we are saying is “abortion should remain legal.” At the core, that’s really it. We’re not “pro-aborts” as Matt so callously refers to us. We are people who think that the government has no place in telling us what should or should not go on in our uterus, and that our lives are complex enough that we are in the best position to make decisions for ourselves. At its heart, it’s really a Libertarian ideal, which is why I find it perplexing that Libertarians such as Ron Paul are anti-choice.

It’s hard to be in agreement on this issue because we are starting from different points. The pro-life community generally starts with the premise that every fertilized egg is a “soul” that God has sent to Earth for a specific purpose. When you’re an atheist, as I am, you don’t see it that way. You see that embryo as a potential person, but not one that is equal to the living, breathing woman that is currently pregnant. In my view, that is probably the single biggest reason that we’ll never agree on this issue. 

There are many, many other issues that cause division when it comes to abortion, but this post has already gotten extraordinarily long, and it is supposed to be focused on the bodily autonomy argument, so maybe I’ll tackle the other arguments and issues another day. You can read more about my views on abortion here.

But let me end with this statement. I really wish the pro-life community would do less judging of the women who have abortions, and work harder to prevent the need for them in the first place. Birth control, comprehensive sex-ed, assistance for people living in poverty; all of these things reduce the need for abortion in the first place, but the pro-life community in general seems so determined to NOT provide these things either. There is SO MUCH we could do together to prevent unwanted pregnancies, but when you spend all of your time trying to outlaw something that will still happen if it’s illegal, you miss the opportunity to really make a difference. And that makes me sad.

16 comments:

  1. I have a question. Reading your logic on morality vs legality, we does a mother attain the legality of caring for the child? Right at birth, before, after. Why would the act of passing a baby through the womb, or c-section, now make her have a legal obligation to care for it. Like some people in China that can have only one child, and they have a daughter, they just let it sit and die of either starvation or illness. Is that ok? I guess I am asking when a child becomes a child? Is it by age? 9 months? Lack of dependency on the mother? What about a late term abortion, that gets botched up and the baby lives? Should the mother be responsible for the baby or would it be ok to to still kill it?

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  2. Interesting questions Mark. I'll take them one at a time like I did in the post.
    1. I think I did address this, but legally speaking, I think the best course of action is at birth, although I'm not entirely sure that you actually DO have a legal obligation to care for your own child unless you actually want custody of them. If you don't, you won't get thrown in jail for surrendering him/her to the state which is why almost every state now has some sort of "safe surrender" law at any hospital. And personally, I don't think that having a mother keep custody of a child she doesn't want is necessarily best for the child. Please re-read number 7.
    2. No, I don't think it's ok to leave an infant dying on the ground. What happens in China is the result of the state having too much control over a women's reproductive decisions. They also have forced abortion, which I don't agree with either. I think that once the baby is not dependent on your body anymore, then you should at least have a responsibility to see that he/she gets to someone who can care for them. How we enforce that is a whole different topic that I don't want to get into here.
    3. When does a child become a child? Well, for me it was when I found out I was pregnant (both times), but that's because I wanted and planned for both children. But if you're asking when someone gains the "status under the law" of being a "person," I think it should be at birth, like I laid out in #7. I won't pretend that this is an easy, clean-cut issue, which is the whole point of the post. I think the legal determination should be at birth, because it IS such a muddy issue. Do you believe life begins at conception? Should we start granting driver's licenses at 16 years and 9 months?
    4. "Botched up" abortions should not happen if a qualified medical doctor is doing the procedure, but it's more common with illegal abortion. I think that is one more reason it should remain legal. But, if in your hypothetical situation this were to happen, then the rights would still begin at birth, legally speaking.
    You kind of seem to have missed the whole point of the post though. I'm acknowledging that abortion, especially in the 2nd and 3rd trimester, is undesirable. But making it illegal is not the answer in my opinion. It's an emotional, difficult decision with many considerations to weigh, which is specifically why I don't think the government should be involved and the decision should be left up to the woman who is being affected by it.

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  3. Thanks for the reply. Its a very interesting mind set. In one way, you are saying that the Government needs to stay completely out of it, but then, a person, only becomes a person when either, "you decided it" or the "Government" decides it, ie. at birth.
    So being human or a "person" is decided not by body function or growth or age, but by...opinion?
    Technically, from your point of view, if the gov stays out of it, your child wouldn't be a person until you really decide it. And just saying, "once the baby is not dependent on your body" is not true, because if you left the baby alone, it would die. And what basis do you state "You should have the responsibility to see that he/she gets to someone to care for them"?
    That doesn't fit with your argument, it fits with your personal morality that you should be responsible.
    I think what you are missing and not understanding from a pro-life perspective is that pro-lifers are not trying to take control of a woman's body. Not at all, actually they are trying to protect a woman's right and a woman's body. Or a mans, depending on the sex of the baby. It's about life, not control.
    You say that for you, your child became a child when you found out your were pregnant. I assume, you could have changed your mind and at any time said, no, its not a child anymore.
    I have a hard time understanding that. Is a child a label? or is a child a child.
    And btw, I do believe life starts at conception. Its about DNA. Science. Science would tell you that life doesn't happen as you pass through a birth canal. It would be like saying, thats not a car until it goes through the dealers doors.
    And a drivers license would be at 15 years months. But you can't get your license until your 16th "Birth" day. And yes, some countries actually look at your age from conception.

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    1. OMG! I just posted an incredibly lengthy, well thought out reply here, and when I clicked on "preview," my computer deleted it!! Ahhhhhh!!!!

      So since I don't have all day to spend on this, I'll just have to try to recreate a few key points.

      I'll admit that I struggled with the question of if a woman should be required to care for the baby she just gave birth to. I don't know what the law should be there. Personally, I would hope that in most situations, a woman would have the resources to get the baby to someone else who could care for them, but ultimately, I'm not sure that women should be thrown in jail for being unable to care for their baby. But like I said, this is not an easy issue, and the bodily autonomy argument is not even in my "top 5" list of reasons I'm pro-choice. http://liberalhouse.blogspot.com/2011/04/why-im-pro-choice.html

      And I think you're being a little disingenuous when you say that science is the reason you're pro-life. You may be using science to back-up your position, but I think you'd have to honestly admit that your stance is primarily religious in nature. Science does not tell us when a person should have legal rights. And even if I granted you that a fetus is a "person," that doesn't change the nature of the bodily rights argument. The argument asks the question, "when should someone else be legally allowed to use my body (for any purpose)" and to me, the answer to that question should be "when I consent to it." That's it.

      I don't question the motives of pro-lifers (at least not most of them). I know they genuinely believe they're just trying to save lives. I can understand that, truly. I just disagree with it.

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  5. I am curious about point 5 where you say "I won’t lie; it does make me uncomfortable." Why does it make you uncomfortable?

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  6. Late term abortion makes me uncomfortable because you can't deny that the fetus is more sentient at that point. Depending on how far along you are, there is an actual baby in there. I can't pinpoint when that happens though, and since we do not have an epidemic of women rushing off to get abortions at 8 months just for the fun of it, I really don't think it's a topic that requires a significant portion of our time. Only one percent of abortions are done in the third trimester, and then, it is generally done for a reason like severe fetal abnormality. So the fact that so much of the debate centers around that 1% really bothers me too. But yes, the thought of it does me squirm a little. That's just me being honest. Does that mean I think it should be illegal? No. I still believe that forcing a woman to stay pregnant when she's not willing to do it is not the best direction for a free society to go in.

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  7. Thank you for your honesty, I sincerely appreciate it. This is something we all need to learn more about. I appreciate you taking the time to answer questions on this and other topics and providing a forum to do that here. And I am with you when you say women don't rush off to get abortions at 8 months for the fun of it. I can't believe they ever do at any stage of their pregnancy. I think it would be agonizing no matter what trimester. I have to say though that 1 percent may sound insignificant but in comparison to the number of abortions each year, I bet it is a pretty large number of babies.

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  8. What advise would you as a parent provide your daughter-in-law who insists on having an abortion because she isn't ready to be a parent even though your son is?

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    1. I would advise her to do whatever she is comfortable with. At the end of the day, she's the one who has to carry the pregnancy to term. Even if my son was ready to be a parent, that doesn't give him the right to use her body as an incubator for his child.

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  9. Interesting, I thought for sure you would first try to appeal to her from your experience of being a Mother and explain why you chose Motherhood.

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    1. Motherhood is very big deal and a very personal decision. I don't take it lightly. You're bringing a person into the world. A person with the potential for great suffering (along with great joy, of course). And being a mother changes you permanently. My experience won't necessarily match anyone else's. If someone is not ready and willing to have a baby, then I don't think giving birth will magically change anything. Obviously you get that rush of joy and love when you see your baby for the first time. It's an amazing experience. But that moment doesn't last forever, and when it's over, you've got a lifetime commitment to take on. If you're not a willing participant in that commitment, then I don't think you should take it on.

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  10. Even though your experience won't match anyone else's, I bet it would be safe to say that you could offer something for someone who wants to know the challenges and rewards of parenting. I would assume you have consulted your parents in order to draw from their experience when you have had to make difficult decisions before or when you wanted to know more about something involving parenting.

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    1. Yes, I do consult my parents for advice, but I did not involve them in my decision of whether or not to have kids. No, I would not try to talk someone into having a child just because my son wanted one, if that's what you're asking.

      As for your circumcision question, I really don't think it applies here, because A) your circumcision is not as risky as a pregnancy is, and B) you don't have a baby after the circumcision.

      From a bodily autonomy perspective, do I think circumcision is ok? I don't know. My thoughts on it have changed over the years. If I gave birth to a boy today, I probably wouldn't do it, but I haven't met a single man who has ever told me that their circumcision as an infant had emotionally damaged them in any way. In fact, most of the anti-circumcision "activists" that I've been aware of have been women (mind you, it's not a topic that I closely follow).

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  11. Oops, I forgot to ask this in the last reply. Would you consider it wrong to circumcise infant son's or should they be given the opportunity to make the decision for themselves?

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  12. There is so much that could be said here but since the subject is bodily autonomy, I can see where I could easily get off topic. What I was really asking is if you would provide your perspective on raising children to your daughter-in-law for your sons’ sake and your grandchild's sake. I bring it up because it could possibly happen, and as parents, even though it is important to demonstrate to our children that we practice what we preach, the moment will come in our lives when it becomes more personal, and we may question our position. Better to question it now. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that you don't believe what you say because I think you do. But I think many of us don't really ask ourselves, why do I believe what I believe? When you said, "No, I would not try to talk someone into having a child just because my son wanted one", that made me think of a common reason some people give their spouses and parents for waiting to have children. They don’t think that they are financially ready, which is important, but what many of them don't realize is that they may be setting their expectations too high and might wait longer than they need to. Like I said, there is so much that could be said, but not enough time here. Once again, I appreciate the civil discourse and enjoyed the exchange, and I truly hope the sun comes out where you are. Thank you

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Let's keep it civil people.